Transcript
This transcript is AI generated
Andrew (00:02): Welcome to another episode of the unblocking podcast. I talk to people about challenges they're facing in their career and we break those down to see if we can make progress. Introduce yourself and tell me what you're feeling stuck on.
Ayrton (00:22): Hello everyone. I am Ayrton, 24 years old, a computer science student, and I'm stuck on getting my career started. I don't have any passion for the field anymore. There was one time where I did have some passion, but I don't know where it went.
Andrew: You don't have any passion for computer science specifically?
Ayrton: I do have some passion for making video games right now, but it's quite fickle. I'm not sure what will last.
Andrew: Have you ever been academically motivated? Did something change that made it so you're not motivated anymore?
Ayrton: Yeah, I was academically motivated. It was for a bootcamp for computer science that lasted about one month, but after that the motivation went away and never came back.
Andrew: Why were you motivated at the time?
Ayrton: It was for 42 school. It was quite fun, challenging, and unique. It was like a challenge for myself in a fun way. It was to get accepted into the program, but I was not selected.
Andrew: So the motivation was that you really wanted to get into 42, and after you weren't selected, you were no longer motivated?
Ayrton: Yeah, pretty much.
Andrew: What are you trying to do right now that you're not motivated to do?
Ayrton: I'm trying to get a degree and get my first job. Both are quite hard challenges for me right now - finishing the courses and getting a job.
Andrew: What's hard about it? You don't want the job, or you don't think it's possible to get one?
Ayrton: To be honest, computer science wasn't really a choice, but more like a random stroke of luck. I chose it randomly because I like to use my computer. I don't really think that even if I could find a job, I would like it. I don't really see myself doing it for the next 10 or 20 years.
Andrew: So you don't like programming. Why?
Ayrton: I do like sitting down and working on my computer. I like writing in a text editor. But some languages that are required right now are not really fun to learn, like Java and object-oriented programming in general. It's not that interesting to me.
Andrew: It's not interesting because it's too abstract?
Ayrton: I think it's too abstract. It's not that I don't like abstraction, but I cannot really see the results right away. It's too far from results, so it's not interesting for me. But with video games, the feedback is more direct, so that's more fun.
Andrew: Do you make video games? Have you made any?
Ayrton: I am making a prototype right now. I started learning how to make games three months ago, so I haven't had the capacity to finish a game yet.
Andrew: Is there anything else you would like to do? Presumably you have financial needs you're trying to meet with this career. Are you motivated to meet your financial needs?
Ayrton: To be honest, not quite, but I know I need to get up and do the work eventually.
Andrew: Some of my friends were very poor and for them it was motivating to become rich. Others are motivated by responsibility - they want to be leaders and help people. Others are demotivated by having to make money - they just want to make art all day. On this spectrum, what is your relationship with earning money?
Ayrton: I think that answer is quite complicated. I'm more on the unmotivated side when it comes to action. But when it comes to thoughts and how I talk to myself in my head, I'm ultra-motivated, but it cannot translate into action.
Andrew: I'm less interested in your thoughts and actions, and more interested in your feelings. What do you feel about money?
Ayrton: I think both pride and fear. But also uncertainty. That's the main thing. Because I do not know where to start.
Andrew: If you're confused about why your actions are mismatched with your thoughts, a lot of times it's because you're uncertain. Do you actually know how to accomplish your goals with certainty?
Ayrton: Not quite. I have a plan and the plan is realistic to attain my goal, but when it comes to following that plan, that's the issue.
Andrew: Do you believe the plan will work? Tell me your plan and then I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it.
Ayrton: My plan is not really about computer science. It's more about making art, making games, mainly art. The computer science part is about making portfolio websites and making some bots to talk with potential buyers. I'll make a lot of goods - t-shirts, illustrations - and set up a shop of my own.
Andrew: So your plan is to sell merchandise using bots, and that will fund your art. Have you ever sold merchandise before?
Ayrton: No.
Andrew: Do you realistically think you're capable of doing that? Do you know every step of how to do it?
Ayrton: I do not know every step of how to do it.
Andrew: I think that could be a place to look for why you're not taking as much action as you want - you have a plan that you don't know how to execute. You have an idealized version of the plan that you need to realize. When you go to realize your ideas, you'll encounter emotional blocks, including confusion, because you're like "what am I supposed to do now?"
That plan involves how many individual actions would you say?
Ayrton: About 50 or more individual actions.
Andrew: I think thousands, personally. I run a business and I do 50 actions in the first half of the day, then another 50 in the evening, every day for three or four years. So it's thousands and thousands of individual actions. Maybe 50 actions until you can see progress, then you'll have more information.
You might want to plan out the first 20 actions rather than thinking about the general plan. When you look at that plan, you can compare it to your resources - your bank account, your network, your social media accounts, people you know. You have a plan that's going to cost resources. You need to look at the plan and compare it to your resources and ask: can I actually execute this plan given the resources I have?
Does that feel like it would give you any clarity?
Ayrton: So I just need more clarity and to be more specific about each step, to break it down into many more steps?
Andrew: The main advice is to consider that the plan in your head is composed of so many steps. All those steps cost you - time, money, or you need to ask somebody for something, or you need to learn something. Start breaking out your plan into all its steps and resources and everything required to guarantee success. Then you'll start to notice that you can't guarantee success - maybe because you don't have enough money, time, or knowledge.
I often tell founders that if they've never succeeded at running their own business before, they should budget about three years to succeed. That's three years of no income and full-time work toward their project, even if you're getting feedback and support.
One thing I'm worried might be happening is that you're expecting too much of yourself, and that's causing inaction because you're overwhelmed by how much work you have to do.
Ayrton: Yeah, I think it is because my friends are telling me the same thing.
Andrew: If that's the case, you need more realistic plans. What it means for a plan to be realistic is that you know how to realize it rather than being uncertain. I would encourage you to make alternative plans that are very realistic such that when you look at them, you're like "yes, I could clearly realize that plan."
Do you have any ideas for realistic plans?
Ayrton: Some alternative plans - either to enter a job as a front-end developer, or to do commission work in an art shop that already exists.
Andrew: Have you done either of those? Do you have leads? Do you know how to make either happen?
Ayrton: To get leads? No, but I advised my best friend about how to get leads and he followed my advice and got leads. So I need to ask him for advice. It's my turn to ask him advice to get leads.
Andrew: So your friend got a job via this method?
Ayrton: Yeah. He asked me for advice about how to do that. I gave him advice and he achieved it. So I'll try to get advice from him on how to do the steps exactly for actions now instead of theory.
Andrew: Asking friends for support is classic. The other thing is writing more. And then putting yourself on a path that other people have walked so you can use their journey and knowledge.
When was 42 school's last application season? Can you apply again?
Ayrton: I can, but my skills haven't developed that much. It was in April of this year.
Andrew: Did they tell you the reason for rejection?
Ayrton: They don't tell you the reason. I think it was because of skills, because I don't have any clue about anything else.
Andrew: How much runway do you have? Are you in debt?
Ayrton: I'm not in debt.
Andrew: How many months could you sustain yourself without changing how you're living?
Ayrton: About one year.
Andrew: What have you done that has led to the most progress? What do you value most that also made progress toward your goals?
Ayrton: In computer science, I don't have any real success story. But when it comes to making art, I do have success stories about months I spent just making art. I was in a state of flow. My productivity went through the roof.
Andrew: Were you proud of the art you made during that period?
Ayrton: I was, I still am right now.
Andrew: Did anyone purchase that art or do you have any signs from the market that the art is particularly valuable?
Ayrton: No, I don't have any feedback from the market. I haven't really put myself out there as much as I would have wanted.
Andrew: How many friends do you have near you that you can work on this stuff with?
Ayrton: I have about two friends who are quite deep in the field - one in computer science and the other in art.
Andrew: Your friend doing art - do they have feedback from the market? Are they able to sustain themselves?
Ayrton: They are beginning to sustain themselves in a big way. They are getting richer, stronger. So I'm proud of them for their progress. I will try and ask them for more feedback.
Andrew: Definitely. I would ask if you could work with them more closely or learn from them. If the thing giving you the most flow and excitement is your art and you know people who have managed to sustain themselves doing art, I could see you going down that route and asking them to help you realize these plans.
You can say "I have these plans. I don't know how to realize them, honestly. I could use your help. I have a year. Is it realistic that I can accomplish these plans within a year? Ideally within six months so I have time to pivot if it's not working."
Ayrton: So I need to get guidance from my friends and from people within the market who have progressed farther than I have.
Andrew: Yes, and the easiest way to get good feedback is to present with really low ego. Be humble. Make it clear they're allowed to be honest with you. The hardest thing when a friend asks for feedback is that you don't want to hurt their feelings. You need to make it very clear: "I'm really serious about this. I want honest feedback, even if it hurts, even if it means you think I'm going to fail. I need the truth because I'm trying to make a decision about how to spend the next year of my life."
Ayrton: So I need to ask for more feedback and do it without showing ego or pride.
Andrew: Right. Have pride in your work when you're making it, when you're selling it, but when you're going to a friend for honest feedback, that's when you say "I have no idea what I'm doing here, I'm scared I'm going to waste my time, and I could really use your honest feedback."
Andrew: The major thing I would bias you toward is being as realistic as possible. Realistic means you know how to realize the goals. You're going to consistently struggle if your goals aren't realistic enough because you're trying to accomplish them but you don't know how, and that causes inaction.
Ayrton: So I need to be more realistic about the plans, whether for art or computer science, to be realistic and precise about each step. And I need both alternative plans and feedback from my friends?
Andrew: Yeah, and as long as all that feels fun. You have to hijack some engine inside yourself. We do things when they feel fun, easy, interesting, or fascinating. You want to make all this stuff interesting and fun. If it's not fun and feels like work, you need to go back to the drawing board with a new meta plan. Keep coming up with new meta plans until the meta plan starts to feel fun.
Ayrton: So I need to keep a balance of fun and realistic.
Andrew: Yeah. If you're not actually going to talk to your friend because it feels scary, don't beat yourself up. Figure out what motivation you need. I don't want this call to end with you having a list of things where if you don't do them, you feel bad.
If the things we came up with don't work, that's okay. Try to come up with new things that help you navigate and reassess, coming up with a very realistic plan. Currently, the plan you have isn't causing you to act at the rate you want.
Ayrton: So it's not really a checklist you're giving me but more of a framework to analyze my plans whether for art or computer science. If any actions you recommended don't work, I can still break down the alternative plans and try to make it work?
Andrew: Right, yeah.
Ayrton: Thank you so much for all the value you've given me today.
Andrew: I'm glad we were able to chat. I especially hope your art is stuff you're able to sell. It sounds like you really enjoy making it. I hope you're able to make games. Just know that it takes time to become an entrepreneur and sell stuff. Try to make it go faster as much as you can without forcing yourself, but also give yourself patience and try to make it fun. Be realistic that it might take a long time.
Ayrton: Thank you. Nice to meet you too.
